Embracing Grief: Healing in a Culture that Avoids Sorrow with Jenn Andreou

Catherine A. Wood  07:23

Well, Jen, I’m I’m really excited to have you on the podcast today. I mentioned this just a moment ago before we hit record. But we haven’t talked about grief on the show. And I think that we’re living in a world that’s grieving right now. And for my audience who identify as empathic and highly sensitive, you know, we are particularly susceptible to being highly sensory. And I’m so excited to have this conversation with you to share more resources and tools, with our listeners to support them in processing their grief and working through it and maybe developing some muscle some skill set to process pain in perhaps ways that we’ve never necessarily been taught to do so. So welcome to the show. And with that, I’d love to invite you to introduce yourself by way of sharing your pronouns with us. And then a little bit about your story, because I think we learn about one another through story.

Jenn Andreou  08:54

Well, thanks, Kathy. Thanks for having me, too. It’s very exciting, and I’m honored to be on your podcast. So my name is Jen Andrea, and I am an actualized living coach and a grief recovery methods specialist. So this is a little bit of my journey through today. I grew up in Newington, Connecticut, where I was very close with my mom. But unfortunately, during my college years, my mom died of liver cancer. And I was completely devastated. Like my mom was my person. But with time, like I decided after college to move away, relocate, you know, I got a bit of therapy. I just kept busy with things. And in that, like, I always believed that time would heal wounds that I had, and I lived by that. So Little did I know that years later down the road, I would get pregnant with a son named Liam. And my husband and I at the time were just thrilled. We are so excited to be new parents to be at and into the pregnancy at 38 weeks, Liam was born and he was born stillbirth. So here I was, again with such devastation after Liam died. And I went to therapy, you know, I joined those groups of other parents that were suffering from the loss of a child. And I even focus on different ways, like I, you know, the Christmas magic elf that you have, you know, I bought one for each of my nieces and nephews, and I named it elf Liam, because I wanted to share him with them as well. But this time, it was different for me. So I remember going to work, the grocery store, you know, the gym, all those things that you do daily, and I was just robotic in everything, like there was absolutely no joy. And I didn’t even know if I would ever get it again, either. So somehow, I knew that time, we would not heal these wounds. So if you fast forward 17 years later, from that point, I was in a presentation. And this woman was talking about loss. And she was talking about a mother who had a son that died. And all of a sudden, I was in a puddle of tears. And I thought, you know, at the time that I was doing better, I was remarried to this beautiful man, we are traveling the world, I had a new coaching career. And I got brought back right to that day that Liam died in that presentation. So I compose myself. And after the presentation, I spoke to the woman about the Grief Recovery method. So I chose to sign up after that. And for the first time, in my adult life, I would say that I truly began to heal from the journey, like the loss of my mom, the loss of Liam, and mom, nothing ever could take away that loss. And that pain. The Grief Recovery method for me, showed me how to to the emotional healing that of the relationships that ended too soon to me and how to recover and how to take those first steps to finding my way back to Joy. So today, I do help moms and daughters and sisters who have experienced loss through recovery, to find their way back to the joy that they live every day through the Grief Recovery method. So I’m super excited to be here today. And, you know, I know this topic is not one that we talk about a lot. And that’s another reason I think it’s so important to talk about.

Catherine A. Wood  12:35

I wonder if it’s that, that very idea that grief isn’t something that we talk about that and how that relates with our inability to heal or process or move through grief. And and I so appreciate you sharing that story. I mean, I know we’ve known each other for a while now. And I knew some of your story. I don’t think I had known all of those connection points. So yeah, I mean, how, how do you kind of experience the ability, the willingness to, to communicate as part of the journey through through grief through healing through moving through? Is there a correlation there?

Jenn Andreou  13:30

Yeah, I think that it’s really important to, you know, take action around it. Like, I feel like we have to go back to when we were little and how we were raised. And we’re all raised differently, of course, but I know for me, like there was a lot of don’t feel bad, like feeling bad, was not something that your parents wanted you to do. So it was either don’t feel bad, here’s a cookie, or, you know, you could feel good, but you could never feel bad. Like that was something that we just can’t experience as any we all know, that grief is what we’re 100% of us are graver so we’re going to feel bad. So talking about it and and normalizing it, you know that it is perfectly normal to have feelings of loss and grief in all situations when things change patterns change when we lose people. And so to me, it’s it’s the normalization, the communication about it, because I think a lot of us tend to isolate to around our loss and we don’t share it. And that can be to with, you know, learning about grief and knowing that all Grievers need is to be heard and listened to and not fixed. And so in that, you know, without analyzing, criticizing or judging anybody in their grief, and just allowing them space to be. And I think that that is really important. And communication is just listening to people being there for people. So they’re not isolating. And knowing that it’s okay not to be okay. And it’s okay to feel sad, without trying to fix.

Catherine A. Wood  15:24

So many profound words of wisdom and that cherish and like, the idea that all we need is to be deeply heard and understood. Think that’s so much a part of our work as coaches in the world. And there’s so many different directions, I want to go from what you’ve everything you’ve just shared, but I feel like maybe just to put some foundation in place, you could share a little bit about the Grief Recovery method and what that framework and model looks like. So perhaps we’re starting from the same from the same place. So So what is what is the method?

Jenn Andreou  16:05

So the method, well, there’s a lot of parts to it, right? It’s an evidence based method. So to me, the important parts of it is, knowing the tools that you had growing up, and using tools that truly help you recover from the loss. I mean, it can be anything, it can be even moving. And so in the Grief Recovery method, I model everything before I asked you to do any of the exercises. So you hear what you need to do, you read what you need to do, you write what you need to do, and you speak what you need, you know, what your your heart needs to feel and be heard. And I think too, you know, grief is emotional. And but in society, we treat it as intellectual. And, you know, there’s all sorts of things that we say that aren’t helpful to people. And so I think with the Grief Recovery method, we all review relationships at the time, and we look at things that we wish were better or different or more of, and there’s always loss of hopes, dreams and expectations. And so the method walks you through those, and it gets out what your heart needs to say, and more about the feelings, right? That the emotions around it, versus the brain around it. Because I know for me, a lot of people like I was sharing with somebody that I could tell you exactly, you know, what time Liam died, what day it was what you know, and I could tell you exactly the details of the event. But until I get into how I felt like how devastated I was, how, like the emotions around it, that’s where the healing begins. And I think as the society goes, it keeps us in the intellectual and we don’t truly get to say what our heart needs to say about how we felt even now, or even then at the time. And that is a huge switch for people when they come through the method of really sharing that 80% feelings versus 20% of event. So it’s different in many ways. And I think it opens up people to be like, Oh, what a wide range of feelings I do have. And they’re not alone. You know, you’re in a group, you’re not alone. And to know that there is recovery, because I think the other thing for me anyways, when I would tell somebody about the death of Liam people would be like, Ah, you never recovered from the death of a child. So I’ve lived with that, like, Okay, this, I’m never going to be recovered until I found something that truly let my heart say what it needs to say to somebody that’s just a heart with yours. And that’s all they are. And they’re just listening and it’s so freeing to be in that space and have that safety around your loss and your grief.

Catherine A. Wood  19:20

You said that it’s the work is done in a group. So it’s, it’s in a it’s in a in like a container rather than one on one support. Is there a reason for that group support versus though one on one?

Jenn Andreou  19:36

Yes, and can be both so I can do it one on one and I can do it in a group and I find that most people it depends on the person because grief is very personal to so some of them request it be done one on one, but the ones that go to the group to for me, I learned so much from group you know when people share what I can relate to them, you know, the empathy that you have for them and the compassion that you have for them. I find that you know, the group setting in holding that container and sharing what people are sharing to strangers, you know, they get really close, and they, you know, setting up the guidelines within making it safe to share and just be heard, no one’s interrupting, you know, and saying, Oh, what about that what, you know, they’re not fixing you. They’re just they’re walking through the same exercises that you’re walking through. So yeah, I think the groups are powerful. And it’s not for everybody, I understand why people do choose the one on one.

Catherine A. Wood  20:44

And I appreciate that. I mean, I think when we’re learning a new skill set, having someone model it is such an access point to oh, that’s how I share from my feelings. Oh, that’s what it means to connect with my heart rather than my intellect. Oh, got it. Wow. Um, so you said something that’s really sticking with me. And it’s the idea that so many of us when it comes to our relationship to grief, connect with that saying that you shared in the beginning, that time Time heals all and? And, like you said, it doesn’t so how do we discern whether we’re healing or something else?

Jenn Andreou  21:40

Well, I think you have to take action. And you have to choose to take action in order to heal. And I would put it like, if you had a flat tire on the side of the road, like, you wouldn’t necessarily just wait for air to fill up the tire. For you to get back on your way. You know, you might call triple A, you might, you know, go and get some help and roadside assistance. But it’s the same thing for grief, you know, like the time might be a different relationship to the grief. But like I said, in my story, like something’s going to come up where it’s not truly healed, then your heart has something to say about it. And so the time, to me is the like taking the action, because I think a lot of people were like, you know, that I talked to in grief, they’re like, I’m not ready to dig up all that is like, Okay, well, then there’s something to think up there, right. And so more time isn’t going to make that get any better, if you don’t take certain actions and steps, which this, you know, shows you the way which I so appreciate, because I didn’t know, and then having a tool that can show you how to say what the heart truly needs to say about, you know, your hopes, dreams and expectations about something that is a loss for you, is so important in society. And I think about it with coaching, too, you know, you have the companies that they lay off a bunch of people, and one of the perks is, but we’re gonna get you a coach, so you can figure out what’s next. And then employee is really upset. You know, they might have been working for this company for 10 years, and they’re not ready for what’s next. They’re still grieving that loss of what happened. And so I think in society, in general, there’s very much a disconnect of, we’ll just keep going, like, you know, with time or even like, we’re getting the things that you do have, like, be grateful for what you have, it doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t feel the way you feel, and you can’t like that honesty of those feelings are so important to express.

Catherine A. Wood  24:11

Yeah, I really appreciate that reminder that embracing grief isn’t something that is welcomed or embraced in our society. And I think it’s as much a reflection of how we were raised as as it is a reflection of other people’s discomfort with grief. So I really appreciate this reminder, you’ve said it now a couple times that if we want to heal, we have to take action. And when I think of action, I mean I’m very action oriented. I think of you know, running a marathon and doing reps and cleaning the house, which I did yesterday. After my two and a half week trip abroad, but what I hear you speaking about when you say action is learning how to communicate your feelings from your heart, sharing those unprocessed or undistinguished hopes and dreams and expectations. And so, this feels like a very different flavor of action than many of us, I imagine are comfortable with practiced in, oriented towards. So can you speak a little bit more about? How do we take action to heal? What types of action do we need to take to heal? How do we begin?

Jenn Andreou  25:45

And in that, too, like, I love what you put into about helping others in their grief, right. So in taking action, you know, I always think, you know, I go to the Grief Recovery method always and taking those actions in, you know, step by step, and how to heal and recover from the loss within the method, and learning how to be with people in a healthy way that are going through loss. And just being with people, like you said, society, it’s very uncomfortable for us. And we tend to isolate, you know, we, we do things which we call short term energy, really behaviors. So to me, it’s taking action in becoming aware of what the things we do in order to cover up the feelings that we truly are feeling, and not being with the feelings, or expressing the feelings. And so, you know, in the world, like short term, energy relieving behaviors, whether it’s the working workaholism, drinking, it can be reading books, fantasy movies, like all of that stuff, eating, you know, all the things that we do to try to cover up what’s truly going on, that only releases that pain for a little bit. So even if it’s that action of, okay, just becoming aware of it, like, Okay, I do this thing, when I get upset, and when I’m sad, that I go to, I go eat a cookie, or I go do things, and it’s not healthy for me, I can still choose to do it. Or I can choose to be with that feeling and express it, and in it in a safe way. And I say that to you know, in the recovery method, it’s like we become for other participants, hearts with ears. And I know, that’s not every relationship we’re in. Like, if I call a friend, I know the friend that’s going to tell me, You know what I need to do and give me the list as opposed to just listen. So having a relationship that you have with someone and letting them know that you just need to be heard, and listened to. And I think to a lot of times, you know, when we’re not the Griever, but we want to help the Griever and, you know, I feel like a lot of people are like, Oh, with the time heals all wounds like, Oh, they’re not ready to go out. Yeah, I think it’s too soon, like you’re deciding for somebody else, whether it’s okay, if they’re ready to socialize again. And I think it’s just allowing them the dignity and, and respect that they deserve to have that conversation and just be with them. So like those steps, whether it’s you as the Griever because I think Grievers you know are courageous people. And any step whether you read a book, whether you join a group about grief, you know, all that, whether you’re just sharing more emotions, whether you go to something that you didn’t want to walk through a room with, you know, like all those things, that it’s really hard when you’re suffering and you have loss, that your do are so important, and the taking those steps are so important to me. I’m really,

Catherine A. Wood  29:19

I’m still sitting with this idea of taking action. And, and I’m hearing in your response, like there’s a there’s a real distinction between the types of actions that speed us up and distract us or occupy our minds or our time, or our bellies or our wallets. Or or, or, and the types and quality of action that slows us down. That allows us to be with other people and other people to be with us. And to me Be go deeper to go a deeper layer.

Jenn Andreou  30:06

Yeah, and that, I think to like, it brings me back, I think the Miss, like the type of action it takes is it takes vulnerability to just be like, there’s not like with somebody, you know, or in a Kinect, because to me, this is scary work, you know, because it’s grief, and we don’t talk about it. And so it, it takes, like, in some sense, it doesn’t take much. And in other sense, it takes a lot and a lot of courage to take those steps. I feel like, you know, in the method, like, all the steps that we take throughout the method is you’re building on recovery of those things, and you’re taking the action within those things. And a lot of it is the awareness around it, like looking at your loss in your life, and all of it in front of you. Like we don’t do that, you know, we barely recognize it even when it comes. And so I think that that is very powerful. And the action to me is just being willing, like being willing and for your, like the power of taking it the power of choice, but in your well being to, you know, of knowing that yeah, it’s it’s, it’s hard. And it’s painful to talk about these things. And there’s something on the other side of it as we do, and that’s the joy, right, that’s the recovery. And so being able to explore different things around loss and how you’ve dealt with it, like education, almost your is well, like, that’s an action to just educate yourself around grief. And what is good ways to be with people and what might not be so helpful. You know, all of that, to me is action.

Catherine A. Wood  32:26

Well, I, I appreciate you as naming that, like, just this reminder that there, that there are helpful, supportive ways to be with people in their grief in their sorrow. And there are unhelpful and unsupportive ways. And I think for for many of us, who perhaps were modeled, more unhelpful ways, we never had something different modeled, like, I think it could be really helpful if you could share, you know, what are what are some helpful ways to be with perhaps first ourselves so we can do our own work? And then and then with those, you know, like, our audience or service providers and givers, and so we’re absolutely the ones who are going to be kind of susceptible and predispose really have that predisposition to want to support others through their pain? And and for many of us, like, What if we never had that modeled for us?

Jenn Andreou  33:31

Yeah, as many of us don’t have that model. So, for me, for others, it’s the listening, right without judgment, and just truly being that heart with ears for others. Growing up, you know, you think about when others were grieving, I know, for me, I would immediately go in and get a hug. And it was really for me, like, you talk about the uncomfortable pneus of being with people with grief. And that would stop the emotion that they had, where it might even stop them from talking. Right? So just allowing them to be and giving them space, like some people will pat you on the back or touch you on the knee, or even hand you a tissue which I don’t do anymore, which some people are like, Oh, that seems like not polite. Like that’s not what I was raised to do. And to me, it’s like if you’re handing somebody a tissue in their grief, you’re saying Don’t feel bad, like tears are wrong. And so learning how to just be with them and let them have their emotion and listen, is really important and understanding to with others that all you grief are all losses is unique to the person. So my loss of my mom might be different, very different from someone else’s loss of their mother and their relationship to their mother. So, you know, when you share things of oh, well, you know, at least you had your mother for so many years or something like that stuff, is that helpful, but it’s what, you know, society, we say like, oh, believe she died peacefully or leave. And to that person, it’s like, yeah, they died peacefully, and they’re still gone. And they still have feelings around that loss. It’s so it’s really, you know, for others is just creating, taking the action of being with and holding that space.

Catherine A. Wood  35:55

Yeah. I really resonating with all of this, and I’m actually thinking of someone close to me who had a loss in their family recently, and, and I went to offer my condolences, and the response was, thank you. And it’s I know, it’s, it’s okay. And, and I, you know, my heart went out to them, because I could really, I could sense their kind of inability, their unwillingness to kind of feel, feel that sadness and grief, and I, and I just felt called to respond in the moment, you know, no, it’s not okay. And I’m here. And I’m imagining that that may be the case for a lot of our listeners that they actually might perceive or sense others kind of unwillingness or resistance to feel their emotions or feel their sorrow and, and for empaths, in particular, you know, that is so hard to be with, so hard to be with people you love, who are hurting and can’t hurt or won’t let themselves hurt. So that I’m even tearing up saying it like how do we as space holders, and loving presences? What else is there for us to do what other action is, if any, for us to take?

Jenn Andreou  37:42

I think to for you know, the thoughts of I can’t imagine what you’re going through, you know, in offering that to them, because even again, back to the mother situation, it’s very different their mother, my mother, and I can’t imagine what they’re going through. You know, and so giving them you know, that opening, to feel what they feel, and even in sense of, you know, when you hear something that they’re sharing, you know, you might offer, oh, was did that make you feel overwhelmed? Or, you know, you might put in something as a question versus like a statement of Oh, was that, you know, terrible and what was it, you know, and so that it might open up more of them to be able to share more. You know, and silence is not the worst thing either, you know, I think it makes us uncomfortable. And I know, it used to make me very uncomfortable. Because Grievers too, you know, the loss of focus, and the concentration isn’t there when you’re grieving. And so their minds are all over the place, you know, and in that’s normal and natural for that to happen. And so I think that just loving them listening to them, you know, I think about people that say, Oh, I shouldn’t be like in my story, I shouldn’t be better. 17 years have passed, you know, but even if it’s three years or four years, they always like we are the worst critics on ourselves in grief as well. And so just giving them that compassion of you know, you are where you are, and it’s okay to have any feeling at every time it’s not linear. Like it just it comes up and it happens. And so I hope I’m answering your questions, but I feel like that is a good way you know, to really be with somebody and acknowledge them, and just have that open space for them to share what they need to share.

Catherine A. Wood  40:07

No, no, you’re you’re offering so many helpful nuggets. And I think the things I’m taking away are just the reminder that so often, when we’re trying to be with someone in their pain, were perhaps trying to fix it, or make them feel better, because we’re uncomfortable. And, and really starting there, and acknowledging our own discomfort, and maybe even communicating it. Putting it on loudspeaker, sharing it, letting it be in the space versus be the space you swim in. Can be, I’m hearing that as a place to lean into something I talk about with my clients a lot is like the idea of invitation to check your assumptions, like just checking in if something is helpful or supportive, or, you know, would they like a tissue? Or would that be a distraction, rather than deciding for them? What they need? Or how they need to take care of themselves in? In their moment?

Jenn Andreou  41:27

I love that that’s beautiful. Yes. Just like, you know, would you like a hug? You know, giving them the option? You know, cuz some people they’re not huggers? I mean, you might be close to the person and no, but yeah, I think that that is just beautiful.

Catherine A. Wood  41:43

Something that this, this just feels like a side note, but, you know, I’ve run I run masterminds I love I love groups, which is why I always love hearing about other people’s experience with groups. And there’s often these moments in the group where there’s this like, kind of feeling of discomfort, there’s just like wave of discomfort in the group. And I always feel kind of, like compelled to just, like, expel that energy. And I have learned, like to just own hey, I need to do this, feel free to join me in a deep breath, if it would be supportive for you. And this is for me,

Jenn Andreou  42:26

I think care of yourself.

Catherine A. Wood  42:29

Yes, and not deciding for other people what they need or how they’re feeling. And I’m just hearing kind of so much of the work that we can do to make, to make grief, a more welcomed topic, to be shared with our loved ones, and to be trusted in our communities is to speak from our own experience, to ask consent, and to bring curiosity versus knowing.

Jenn Andreou  43:05

Exactly, and to just be that heart with the years to be with you guys. Yeah, it’s so simple. And it’s so it’s challenging for us because we’re not, you know, you don’t grow up like that. So,

Catherine A. Wood  43:20

well, I actually, that’s where I’d love to go next. Because there’s were this whole conversation as we were speaking, I’m just, I’m thinking about myself as a highly sensitive, intuitive empath. With big feelings, you know, I have always had big, big feelings, and, and I know many of our listeners have them as well. And I think that for many of us with big feelings, it made our caretakers uncomfortable growing up, so uncomfortable that to your words, you know, to use your words, they, they wanted us to feel better, they tried to fix our feelings, our pain, our sadness, our sorrow, you know, whatever it was small or big. And I think that for many of us, the consequence of that was that we learned that it was not safe to share our feelings. Because, you know, we know that when we fix other people’s feelings, it makes it less safe to trust other people with them makes us less inclined to share those feelings the next time we have a moment or the next time we’re wanting to lean in and be vulnerable. And and I noticed in my work that one of the consequences of that over time, like one of the learned consequences of becoming disconnected with your feelings is that they eventually come out. And when they do come out after having not come out for a very long time, they often come out unintentionally, or irresponsibly, or as attacks or breakdowns so much so that I think many of us learn to be scared of our motions because of how other people responded to them how other people couldn’t be with them. Because we became disconnected from feeling our feelings, so much so that they kind of ruled us. And so I’m, I’m really appreciating this conversation and how the path is through. And for those of us who perhaps don’t have a lot of practice, in sharing our feelings consistently, intentionally, purposefully, in a kind of safe way, I’m just imagining that this conversation could feel really scary, could feel really out of reach. And so, where, where’s the place to begin?

Jenn Andreou  46:18

I go to the

Catherine A. Wood  46:21

start shading your smile to by the way?

Jenn Andreou  46:23

Well, I get that question that you probably get asked a lot during the day, which is how are you doing? You know, whether it’s at the grocery store, or whether, you know, you come home from work, and your partner says, How was your day and you say, it was fine, everything’s fine, you know, or going through the grocery store? You know, how are you? I’m great. How are you? And that, I think we’re practiced in lying, like you said, like, we’re not all great. It’s not all fine, like things happen, and you have feelings about them. And so I think that this, I want to say small practice, in a way would be to start being honest, and answering honestly, to those questions throughout the day. And asking, maybe more open ended questions so that people don’t have to lie to you back? You know, like, because the How are you doing? To a lot of people, whether they’re depressed or anxious? Like, that’s a big question, right? And they’re probably not going to answer it honestly. And so not giving that you have to say everything about all your feels, you know, in the workplace, or whatever. But you could just say, hey, you know, I’m doing a lot better than I was yesterday, you know, like, yesterday was a tough day or, you know, whatever you want to say, but at least, that’s becoming more honest with yourself about. It’s not fine. It’s not good today, you know, and it’s, and it’s okay, not to be always fine and good.

Catherine A. Wood  48:14

I think that is such an important reminder. I love that you that that’s where you went with the question, because it’s, it’s so true. Like, it’s just starting with those simple questions, those simple ways in which we become disconnected, or dishonest with ourselves and with others, like how are we really disconnecting? Moment to moment? I mean, I know for me, my, probably like the first three years into my coaching relationship, I had a practice of a post it note in multiple areas of my apartment and home, like, what are you feeling in this moment? It’s a practice to this day, I offer to clients all the time, as an invitation to connect more routinely with their own interior world to to be able to communicate more authentically with their external one. So, so thank you for that. And honestly, it feels it feels really timely because I think that we’re living in a world that’s grieving right now. And if there’s so much pain and hardship and fear and sorrow in our wake, and I think so many of us are just being fine about it, because we don’t know how to process and share and we don’t have safe places to practicing.

Jenn Andreou  49:51

I love how you ask how you feeling in this moment, too. Because it’s so important, right? Because people just tend to go I’m having a bad day. So therefore, it’s the day where you’re breaking it down and say, Okay, what about just right now? Because we don’t know. And we our feelings are like a roller coaster. So I love that.

Catherine A. Wood  50:17

I’m mindful of the time and I am just noticing, I am wanting to know if there’s anything you’re wanting to share. There’s anything you’re wanting to share about this topic that I haven’t, perhaps thought to ask you.

Jenn Andreou  50:33

I’m trying to think if there’s anything I mean, there’s so much on this topic that, you know, it’s one of the things I never thought I would be sharing about, you know, if I look back at my journey, I was like, oh, no, that’s not anywhere are gonna go with that. But now, it’s like you said, it’s, the world needs more healing, more compassion, more hearts, with the ears, and just allowing people to loving people through it and allowing people to just be where they are in all their emotions. And being there for people in the emotions. So, you know, there is recovery. And I think that that this just for me was such an aha moment in my world, that it’s possible to actually truly find that joy.

Catherine A. Wood  51:30

Well, this feels like a really timely conversation. And I really appreciate you for coming on today to have it with me. I lost someone dear to me in just the last couple of days. And another family member lost someone dear to her. And so divine, divinely timed, Jen. And as we wrap today, I, I I’d love to invite you to share what supported you and becoming the prosperous Empath that you are. It’s a question I invite all my guests to share.

Jenn Andreou  52:11

I would say the biggest support for me is other people, like other people within my journey that are allowing me the support, the love the care that I need to just be me. And that’s all that I need to do in my business in my world. I think that, yeah, that feelings are okay. And like, I feel like I’m very much that person that lives, you know, to heal and help others, but that it’s available to me, too. And I think I wouldn’t have known that if I didn’t have the support from others. And you have to ask for it. Right? Like you have to get that support as well. And so I think that that I wouldn’t want it any other way than to be that sensitive person to be that person that goes into the heartfelt space and to really love people and connect with people on a different level than the world

Catherine A. Wood  53:10

Thank you. Thank you so much. It’s a pleasure to have you. Thanks for having me.