Discovering the Puzzle Pieces That Make You, You with Barbera Schouten

Catherine A. Wood  00:02

Hi, Barbara, welcome to the podcast.

00:04

I, Catherine, thank you so much for them.

Catherine A. Wood  00:08

We were chatting just before we clicked record about how your episode on our summit is airing today. And I feel so grateful for the HSP summit for connecting us. It’s always fun to kind of be introduced to like minded souls. And even on our first connection there, it was really just an immediate report. So I think it’d be fun. By way of introducing you to my audience, if you want to just share a little bit about your story.

Barbera Schouten  00:35

I would love to thank you so much for asking. So it can be very long, lengthy, but I’m going to try to keep it as short as possible. My story actually already started at a very young age, people would tell me things like, Oh, you’re far too sensitive, or you really need to grow a thicker skin, don’t take everything. So personal or my favorite, you really need to learn how to let things go. And in hearing all of these things, I felt like I cannot be who I actually am. And then I was bullied a lot in school and also bullied or abused more at home. So the entire combination made me feel like, I’m not okay, who I am is not okay. And what I wanted more than anything else was to be a part of something to be feel included, to be a part of a friend group or just be appreciated for who I am. So what happened was that I started working really hard to try and be the person that I thought other people wanted me to be. And that sort of ended up in having a version of Barbara for my friends, a version of Barbara, for a school, a version of Barbara for at home, later on the version of Barbara for at work, a version of Barbara for my relationship. And it’s exhausting to have so many balls up in the air and needing to keep the story straight, because you’re not yourself in any of them. And in the end the whole not being who I am and having all these different masks. And also not really knowing why I am meaning that I chose a line of profession. That was more for the reasons of you can find high paying jobs in this and not all I’m passionate about this. And I love it. That the whole combination of all of these things being so far away from who I really am. It ended me up in a severe burnout. And at the time, it was the worst thing ever. To me. I felt like I had failed everybody, everybody around me everybody that was important to me, but also myself. And I had a really difficult time accepting what was going on and dealing with it. But in hindsight, looking back on it, it was probably the greatest gift that I had received up until then, because it started me off on my journey of self discovery. If confronted me in a way that I couldn’t escape from that what I was doing up until then was just not working. And the strategies that I had created for myself was not working. And I was miserable for almost 24 hours a day, only when I was really sleeping and then even then I think I have fitful dreams and I never woke up rested. So I think the whole thing was just eating me up. And the burnout was sort of the end stage of that the combination of everything and and then even then I managed to push myself push myself and keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going until my body literally shut down. When I ended up in my burnout. I cried for a week, they took me to the doctor because I couldn’t stop crying. Even at night, I was crying. I couldn’t I couldn’t stop. That’s how overloaded I was. But that’s also the period where I discovered I’m a highly sensitive person by accident. And then I started looking into what that meant. And that was the first glimpse I got into who I really am and that I’m now weird. Not strange, but I’m a highly sensitive person. And later on, I discovered even more things about myself. I always call it discovering the puzzle pieces that make you you. And there are a lot of different puzzle pieces and with every puzzle piece I discover, I get a greater understanding of who I am and why I am the way I am why I talk the way I talk why I do the way I do, why I have the norms and values that I do and why I have have certain expectations or non expectations, just everything about myself starts to become clearer and clearer. So I don’t like boxes, and I don’t like labels. But discovering all of these puzzle pieces of myself, I don’t feel myself being labeled. I feel myself going deeper and deeper into my own user manual. And reading a new chapter and thinking, Oh, that explains this or that or that. Oh, interesting. Oh, and this is the way I could handle it in a different way. If I want this and this and that result. Oh, interesting, right.

Catherine A. Wood  05:42

I love that explanation of how you experienced burnout. Because I think it’s such a it makes so much sense. You know, it’s like the idea of trying to meet other people’s standards or do things the way other people expect or want us to, like, of course, right, of course, in our attempt to give and love and support and care for and be chameleons in our lives, like of course, we would eventually experienced burnout. And thank God, you know, it sounds like your experience of burnout was really a door a new door to walk through. Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. So what have you discovered about yourself and who you are on the other side?

06:36

Well, that’s also a very good question. So it’s an I’ve discovered that I am even more unique than I already knew I was. So discovering that I am highly sensitive. At first, I felt like I was coming home to myself, and explained a lot of things about myself about my childhood that I previously didn’t understand. Like, for instance, I could go from bubbly and happy, which is my normal state into inconsolably. Sad like that. Oh, my gosh, I’m covering my eyes. Yes. And then come up to me and say, What child what’s going on? Did somebody hurt you? They call you a name? Why are you crying? And I couldn’t answer that, because I had no idea. But I saw that everything I was feeling was mine, because I am feeling it. So then I need to come up with a reason for how I am feeling. And discovering that I’m a highly sensitive person was also discovering that I can feel things that are not mine. I can feel other people’s emotions, and then channel them and express them as if they are mine. But they’re not mine. Which also explains why I couldn’t say why I was crying because it was not my sadness. And thinking back later, I discovered it was my mother’s sadness that I was crying. My mother’s grave. My mother’s hurt everything my mother was going through. As a sensitive child, I was crying it, I was expressing it because my mother, still to this day has never learned how to express her emotions. So at first, it felt like, Ooh, this is the answer. This is me. But then even within the eyes sensitive community, I discovered quickly that I am different because the largest part of highly sensitive people are introverted, meaning they get their energy from being alone. And they don’t like big parties, large crowds, presenting, I love it. I love going dancing, I went to house parties once a month, I couldn’t be in the middle of it in everybody. But I would be like around the edges where I had space to move and to dance and then I could lose myself in the music and just completely let everything go. It was my my overflow of health, so to handle everything, and I loved it, which would be a total nightmare for most highly sensitive people. So then I discovered I am an extroverted introvert because on the grand scale of introversion and extraversion, I am still considered an introvert because I do need moments where I am completely alone. And where I unplug and where I cannot people that they and I replenish by going for long walks by myself or sometimes being in zombie mode binge watching a series, whatever I need to get back into my normal state of being but I can also be the life of the party. If I am at a party where I feel comfortable and connected with people I love speaking to big audiences. So that’s the extroverted part of myself. So that is a discovery. And then I discovered I am what they call a high sensation seeker. So Though it’s sort of like a thrill seeker, and not in the traditional sense, because the idea of jumping out of an airplane with a parachute. Oh, I love that jumping.

Catherine A. Wood  10:11

I love that too.

10:13

But it’s, it’s, for instance, becoming an entrepreneur taking this entrepreneurial journey, the entrepreneurial risk on but also putting yourself out there for people to judge you or hate you or love you or all of these things. And it’s also sort of, you need to have a more extroverted personality to really be okay in it. And that doesn’t mean that as an introvert, you cannot become an entrepreneur, of course you can, but you might need to adjust your visibility or the way you market yourself or the way you express yourself. So extroverted introvert or ambivert, is sometimes also called then you can slide on the scale of extraversion and introversion, which is what I’m doing. I sensation seeker. But then also, I discovered I am a sigma, female and boss. And for a long time, I just thought I was an empath that was also a puzzle piece and both feeling but I don’t think all empaths are HSPs. But I do think all HSPs are m bots. So that was not the big shocker. But the sigma personality. It’s, most people know the Alpha personality or the beta personality, but the sigma fi, sigma personality is someone who goes against the grain, who by just doesn’t accept Oh, this is the way we are doing it. This is why is this the way we are doing it can be done on a different way? Or can I not use a different color, or I want to do it myself, I don’t want to dis premade thing saying I want to do my thing. And yes, maybe I fall on my face five times 20 times, I don’t care, I want my thing. So very different type of personality. But it also means that you can rub people the wrong way. It’s what you are when you’re a trailblazer or a rebel. Black Sheep might also be a good term. So when you’re just

Catherine A. Wood  12:14

different Sumerian prairie, and I hear

12:18

exactly. So those are parts of what I discovered and you can be a sigma female, but a sigma female Empath, as then different qualities because a sigma female can be this different type of person, the rebel, the trailblazer, but doesn’t really show their emotions and has trouble connecting to their emotions, which as an empath, I don’t. And that’s the biggest difference between a sigma female or a sigma female Empath, or male, of course, it’s same sort of distinction. So those are all parts of the puzzle that make up myself and then I got introduced to both human design and the jinkies which were mind blowingly awesome. For me, they are two sides to the same coin. For me, the human design system is very much digging, action taking conclusion drawing inside getting aha moments system. And if you want, I can explain more what it actually is. But the jinkies for me are the Yin version of the same coin because the jinkies are all about going in Shadow Work for instance, inner healing contemplation. So very much more the the inner the slower type of learning and there I discovered I am a manifesting generator, for instance. So that means the manifester has the ability to come up with new concepts, and manifest it and the generator is a bit like the diesel engine, it might take a while for them to get going. But then when they do go in, they have this perpetual energy, and they can go and go and go and go and really see things through. But as a manifesting generator, you’re both. And the theme, the not self theme of that is frustration, which I don’t recognize at all in my life.

Catherine A. Wood  14:29

As you look anywhere, but at me. Exactly.

14:36

Because I have the manifestation power. So I’m getting the downloads, I can create new ideas and concepts, but then when I tried to put them out in the world, for instance, I came up with an event and then I make an event page and I start promoting it, and almost nobody registers for it. Or I create a new course based on what everybody told me they wanted and then I start promoting it and almost nobody by Why is it that is because I don’t have the true manifester energy, a true manifester, which is only 8% of the world, they can do things and the Nike slogan, just do it. That’s what a manifester, but the generator part in me needs to be invited, it needs to respond. So that means that I cannot put it out into the world now I need to start talking about it. And then people need to say, oh, where can I sign up for that. And they need to ask me for the link instead of me trying to sort of shove the link through their throats in newsletters or social media posts. So that’s where the frustration came from, because I have all of these brilliant downloads these brilliant ideas. And whenever I tried to put them out in the world, it fell flat on the face. Very frustrating.

Catherine A. Wood  15:49

I hear it. I mean, I love so much of what you’re sharing. I mean, first of all, the idea of not like loving to be at a party, but wanting to be on the outskirts. And having kind of a felt sense of everyone, I completely resonate with that. When I walk with in groups or friends, I can never stand in the middle of the circle, I always need to be on an end because I like to, I just have a value about inclusion. And I want to be able to see everyone and to make everyone feel included and heard. Also why I like round tables rather than squares or rectangular tables. But I also love what you said around being an empath and a highly sensitive and starting to become responsible for your emotions, versus what emotions you were perceiving or sensing that were other people’s or even prior generation. I think that’s something that I’ve been really interested in my own work, just learning more about generational trauma and learning more about the generational patterns of emotions and wounds that when we don’t heal them, or make peace with them, we can pass them down the the generational line, and then it falls on the next generation to to make peace with them. And so I I really that really resonated with me also and and I love hearing you share about all of these. It sounds like with each new puzzle piece, about being a manifesting generator and Empath and a highly sensitive and a sigma. I think you call it a sigma Empath, that it’s helped you put the puzzle pieces back in and really help giving you the full visual of of who you really are. Which, which brings me back to where you started this conversation. And where I’d love to take the conversation was around all of those labels that people used to tell you as a child that you were offended by which naturally, so because who wouldn’t be, you don’t be so sensitive, you need to learn how to grow a thick skin, which I got that one too. And it sounds like in figuring all the puzzle pieces that there wasn’t necessarily any fixed skin to develop, but rather to just accept and own and embrace.

18:38

Yes, exactly. That’s indeed what it’s about. It’s, well, in a sense, it’s also creating a thicker skin because one of our pitfalls is that we care too much. We care too much about what other people say about us and what other people think about us. And what we need to learn what we might may learn is that what other people think about us is none of our business, what they think and what they say it’s their business. We don’t have any business with that, because it doesn’t say anything about us as a person. It’s their perception. It’s their truth. It’s the way they choose to look at it. colored by their experiences, their limiting beliefs, every everything that they went through in their life, which make them perceive certain things in a certain way which doesn’t make them the truth. So I also don’t really like the term the truth because I discovered there is not a truth one truth. Everybody has a version of the truth, their truth, which is colored by again their experiences their limiting beliefs and things They’ve learned the things that they’ve been thought. And that’s the explanation how two people can experience the exact same situation in complete ly different ways.

Catherine A. Wood  20:14

Well, can we talk about this a little more, because I think as empaths and deep feelers, we do care just so deeply, we care so deeply about other people, other people’s emotions, we care so deeply about feedback, we care so deeply that our work makes an impact, right? So we are just naturally reset receptive towards other people’s opinions and feedback. And this idea of having a thick skin, which, I mean, personally, I don’t, I don’t like I don’t, I don’t actually, I’m not committed to having a thick skin. I’m committed to knowing myself so fully, that I can stand in my own authenticity, while welcoming other peoples without taking other people’s allowing other people’s words to kind of ricochet back right without landing or internalizing, like they used to, but I’m wondering, you know, how do you how do you do that? How have you learned to do that I’m, I know my journey, I’m curious about yours.

21:21

I love that you’re saying that because in the end, that’s what it’s about. It’s it’s not about literally creating a thicker skin. It’s about getting to know yourself on such a deep level, that you are secure in knowing who you are, you’re comfortable in your own skin, and you know, the type of person that you are. So then when somebody calls you a name, and you know, 100 200% sure that that’s not who you are, and you’ve always come from a place of love, then they can still hate you, but then you can leave it with them. It’s their experiences their hurt. Eckhart Tolle talks about something he calls the pain body. And the pain body is something that everybody creates, everybody has that inside of themselves. And it’s a collection of everything that you’ve experienced. And that has been done to you. And I’m using air quotes, because done to you sort of implies that you’re a victim. And a lot of us when we haven’t done a lot of personal development, yet, we do feel that a lot of things are being done to us. But then we are giving away our power, we stepping into that victim personality. In the end, it’s also you allowed people to do that to you. And that takes something to wrap your head around. Because first when I speak to people about it, they’re like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, I never asked him to break up with me to trample my heart into a million pieces, and then cost me out with yesterday’s garbage. I didn’t choose that. And that’s, that’s not what I mean. But it’s when we are not secure about ourselves, when we don’t have a full belief in ourselves. When we don’t 100% or more love ourselves, then we let the outside world influence our inside world too much. And what I also see is that many of us don’t make a distinction between going to the supermarket, and then being verbally abused by the cash girl, the cash register girl, or your partner that’s being verbally abusive. And both breaks us and hurts us on a very deep level, while the girl at the supermarket who you don’t know probably will never see again. But at least it’s very far away from your personal circle should not have the same impact on you and your feelings about yourself, as your partner has. And even your partner needs do not have direct access to your soul and your heart when it comes to hurting you. You need to have a certain layer in between where you filter it and think Is this your pain that’s now talking and responding to something that’s being triggered based on things that you’ve experienced would have absolutely nothing to do with me. So I also don’t need to feel hurt or burdened or something by this. I can then come from a place of oh my god, you must be so triggered. I’m so sorry. How can I help? Instead of oh, you cannot talk to me that way and you are hurting me and I don’t like it when you go or even worse thinking, oh my god, there’s something wrong with me because I did this and you know that whole way of thinking which a lot have us have. So in the end, it’s all about following that journey of self discovery, getting to know all of these puzzle pieces that make you you, and then finding who you are without a shadow of a doubt. And then feeling very comfortable in being that person and bracing that person loving that person, and then being proud of that person. And then when people do or say things, it doesn’t shock you or rock you to your core, because, you know, I’m not that person. As somebody called me a narcissist. Today, my old self would have been devastated. Because if there’s anything I’m not, it’s a narcissist. And I’ve been abused by lots and lots of narcissist, I know exactly what they are, who they are. That’s so far from who I am. That it would have hurt me, the old me, the new me is so secure in who I am that I thought it didn’t register, right, it didn’t have any trade, it didn’t hurt because it was just so ridiculous. That all I could do was just, I didn’t have any words, I could only shake my head. And totally.

Catherine A. Wood  26:17

And I mean, you know, for those of us who can’t who aren’t seeing us right now, right? Like you have this full, playful laugh, like smile on your face as you’re sharing it. Because I think this is what’s possible when you lean into your own work, when you truly come to peace and come to fully embrace and accept who you are other people’s words, they can just they ricochet off of us. They don’t land they don’t stick. And I love that we’re talking about this example, because I was listening to a talk this morning. I’ll see if I can find it and add it in the show notes. But it was talking about what way of being as the strongest vibrational energy. And I think, you know, most of us would assume it’s love, right? That love has the strongest vibrational power. And this piece was suggesting that in fact, it’s not love, that the single way of being that has a stronger pole than love is authenticity. Yes, self love, innocence, self love for sure. But the idea of authenticity being even more powerful than self love. Makes sense to me. Because I think that there is a there’s an inner authenticity, and there’s an external authenticity that has us so fully know who we are, that we can love from an open hearted and grounded place. Yes, that has us love and give and care for others while also being self honoring.

27:56

I often do an exercise with my clients. Is it okay, if I share a little bit about it? At this point. So I say to them, well, may I take you to demonstrate this with? Sure? I’d love to. Okay, so if I tell you, Catherine, what the hell are you thinking? Who puts these ugly black and blue and canary yellow stripes in their hair? You know, you look like an idiot. Nobody that wants to come off professional as a business owner would color their hair that way. And then to pair it with their shirt that’s purple with black polka dots. And then this huge monstrosity of a necklace. What were you thinking? Would you feel offended?

Catherine A. Wood  28:51

Not my current version.

28:55

And most people would not feel offended because it’s so over the top ridiculous. And for those of you who cannot see Katherine has beautiful brown hair and a lovely yellow shirt on. So it’s so far away from reality that we don’t feel heard by it. Because it’s it’s ridiculous. And the things I’m saying are ridiculous. And we don’t feel personally spoken to because I’m not wearing that hair, that clothes, nothing. So then we can separate it as being ridiculous. But if I were to go into, you know, I never understand why people will wear glasses and why you’re not wearing contacts. And why everybody thinks that these Roush things along your shirt would be beautiful. And would be net because then it’s a lot closer to the truth. It’s a lot more like how you’re actually looking. And then it becomes a lot harder to stay true to who you really are. Because what I’m seeing is so much closer to the truth that usually it then sort of taps into that pain body I was talking about that Eckhart Tolle teaches about. And it has to do with all the times that people called you names or all the times that people made you feel ridiculous, all the times that you didn’t feel accepted, and it taps into that hurt, that collective hurt that’s stored in your pain body. And because it taps into that, even though it’s not completely that, then your response will be, at least to consider it and think about it is that really true, and then you start thinking, and before you know it, you go down the rabbit hole, and you’re feeling hurt, and, and you cannot stop thinking about it, and so on. While if it’s completely off base, and has no connection at all, to who you really are, or how you’re actually looking, we can brush it off immediately. And that’s what happens when you become a lot more firm in your knowing on a deep level of who you are. Because even when I’m talking about things, in the second example, when you just love the way you’re looking, and you love your style, and you love the clothes that you’re wearing, because it makes you feel really pretty, and successful and whatever, then you’re like, okay,

Catherine A. Wood  31:13

yeah, you totally, I mean, even as you’re giving this example, I’m just laughing over here, because I wear a lot of bright colors, and a lot of multi bright colors. And I have a lot of people close in my life who are like, Oh my gosh, I could never wear that. I’m Why are you wearing that. And I just laugh because I love being bright and bold. And, and I love this example. Because I think that inner knowing like, the more you know yourself, the more you can truly be at peace with other people’s responses, even if they’re right at you. Like even if they’re about you, you can still hear them without taking it personally. Exactly. But it is a practice. It’s not an overnight, an overnight process.

32:06

No, and then it’s can be a long process even and I don’t think you’re ever done learning. But that’s where the puzzle pieces come in, right. Because with every puzzle piece that you’re discovering about yourself, it’s a new opportunity to love yourself deeper, and to be more firmly rooted in who you actually are, and to feel comfortable in your own skin. And, and you know, that’s my biggest transformation, right? I used to feel weird and strange. And I seriously considered that there was something wrong with me. For a long time, I really thought there was something wrong with me. Now, I think I’m weird. I’m strange. And I’m loving it. Because I don’t want to be like everybody else. I love that I’m unique. I love that my name is written in a unique way, because for most people, it will be the three A’s. So everything about everything about myself makes me a unique unicorn, and I now love that about who I am. But that’s that’s a huge transformation that spans multiple years, and is a process and that’s where people like you and me, but also our summit come in, because they help us discover these things. And they can help us make peace with certain thoughts or certain beliefs or shatter them completely and build this newfound self love, self trust and safety so that we can be our authentic self and and discover what that is our authentic self?

Catherine A. Wood  33:39

Well, I mean, I’m just appreciating for our listeners who are really resonating with your message and who are really committed to not developing a tougher skin, right? They don’t want to kind of put more barriers between themselves and the external world. They’re more interested in connecting with their own deeper knowing putting the puzzle pieces in place, really coming to their own full self authenticity and expression. I’m curious what practices you would invite them to begin with what what journey has made the difference for you like?

34:20

Well, the the biggest difference for me was really finding Human Design energy and keys. And that is why I now create I call it the BU by design blueprint where I combined both systems and I give people an insight into who they were designed to be. And that can be then the platform from which you dive off and discover even more and more and more about yourself. So that made the biggest difference, but a simple thing that people can already do is I think the general or popular term for it is heart coherence. But it actually is a breathing technique where you connects with your innermost self through your breath. Because most it sensitive people breathe from their chest. And everything that’s emotional happens up here, like a lump in your throat pressure on your chest, headache, dry eyes, stinging eyes, you know, most emotional initial expressions happen up here. And when you’re already breathing here in your chest, then the overflow is very close by where the emotions overflow. And by breathing to your belly to the point below your navel, you not only connect with yourself on a deeper level, but also the way of overflowing for emotions takes a lot longer. And then the heart coherence part is where you consciously choose a form of breathing, that allows a deep inner peace. And when you have a more deep inner peace combined with a deeper form of breathing, you’re a lot more in control over your responses to people situations, or your emotions. And that makes life better for you. Because you’re no longer reactive, but you’re becoming more proactive. That makes sense.

Catherine A. Wood  36:26

I love that. You know, it’s interesting, I really appreciate your response, because I recorded another episode earlier with someone who’s certified and an expert in the Kobe assessment. And she shared a similar response that for her, the Kobe assessment and and what she discovered about herself, is what made a huge difference for her in embracing who she is, just like I hear you saying that for you. It was Gene keys and human design that made the difference. And I definitely think that, to some extent, discovering that I was highly sensitive and Empath and an introvert were hugely kind of permission giving for me. And similar to your second response, that meditation, and even just simply simply journaling, or deeply supportive for me in in discovering my truth, my my authentic expression, inner knowing. So yeah, I love I love just the the synchronicities and our responses.

37:45

Yes, in the end, it’s all about connecting with your innermost self in whatever form or way and there are multiple ways of doing that. I have never heard of the Colby assessment. But if that is something that brought someone close to their innermost self them, wow. Right. And for me, it’s then human design and the Jinkies, which are sold on things like the Kabbalah, astrology, the eaching, which is a very famous Chinese predictions system. And it also incorporates the new sciences like neuroscience, and epigenetics, which are the studies of being able to manipulate ourselves on a cellular level with the thoughts that we are thinking, and which allows room for being able to heal your cancer with your thinking, for instance, and to throw something out there. So in the end, I think it’s discovering what works for you. What helps you get to know yourself on a deep level so that you can start to really appreciate who you are for who you are, and not for who you think you are supposed to be.

Catherine A. Wood  39:02

Oh, totally. So you can truly delight in who you are at your core.

39:07

Yes. Well, everybody’s unique. So don’t try to be like somebody else, but be as unique as possible. That’s your contribution to the world.

Catherine A. Wood  39:19

Absolutely. Well, this has been delightful. And I think it’s left me with just as many questions as answers, which I would expect no less than from a coach. And as we wrap up today, I’d love to ask you a question I ask all my guests which is what is supported you most in becoming a prosperous empath?

39:41

That is a very good question. And the answer to that is, again, the combination of the human design and the jinkies because it started out as being a window into myself, but you can also apply human design in the jinkies to your business. And once I discovered all the ins and outs of what made me me then I also discovered that I was running a type of business that was not aligned with who I really am. So that was also why I was not having the success in my business before, even though I worked my ass off to make it successful. And the more you get to know yourself in whatever way that is for you, the more you align with your true self, and you can step on the path of doing what it is that you’re supposed to be doing here. While you’re here on earth. Why you are this reincarnation in the human body that has all of these experiences because it happens for a reason.

Catherine A. Wood  40:41

Yeah. So, so true. Well, Barbara, thank you so much for today. I am looking forward to sharing our episode with my audience and it was a delight to have you on the show.

40:56

Thank you so much. I love the talk. And I’m also looking forward to sharing it with everybody