3 Mindset Blocks to Sharing Your Message & How to Overcome Them with Podcast Producer, Haley Hatcher

Catherine A. Wood  00:34

Haley, it’s so great to see your face. I feel like I only chat with you over Voxer, and now we’re on zoom as two mamas and entrepreneurs, and it’s how it’s happening. I know it’s so crazy. I was just telling you that since we started working together, I feel like both of our lives have changed so much, and so it’s really special for me to be here today. Yeah, well, I you know, I so appreciate the role that you’ve played in my own business journey and also in the growth of my business. But when I say business journey, I really mean in my own personal journey, and owning my own voice and taking up space and, and you’ve really been that support structure that’s helped me declare and fulfill and do what I said I was going to do, and and I just, I love that, that role you play as a Podcast Producer, because you’re not a coach, right? But I imagine you take the role of a coach with lots of your clients who don’t know how to take up space, or don’t know what to say, or find as much challenge as I do talking into a ding mic all to myself,

Haley Hatcher  02:03

yeah, yeah. And that’s so true. I mean, and like you said, I’m not a coach, but I feel like when I see a lot of my clients are also heart centered entrepreneurs, just like me, just like you and a lot of them, they have like, these same mindset blocks when it comes to launching their podcast, whether I really boil it down to three, right? So it is that analysis paralysis, getting stuck in perfectionism, and then also imposter syndrome. But I think imposter syndrome is like, really the biggest one, because I think we can tend to ask ourselves, well, does my message really matter? What do I really have to add to this space? Who is really going to listen to me? And I think asking those questions before you even launch your podcast, before you even do one thing, taking time to reflect and answer those questions is really like 50% of the work, and then you can dive into, you know, the tech portion, the branding portion, and, like, really creating your episodes for the first time. But if you don’t do that before, I think once you start and get into it, you will find a few hurdles there in the beginning. Can

Catherine A. Wood  03:19

we repeat those questions. I feel like those are really important. Yeah.

Haley Hatcher  03:24

Um, so it was like, you want me to repeat the mindset blocks?

Catherine A. Wood  03:30

I do, yeah, okay.

Haley Hatcher  03:32

Um, so it was analysis paralysis, imposter syndrome and perfectionism. And I try to help my clients through the questions of, what is my message? Is it actually important? Who’s really going to listen to me? And how do I, I guess, thoughtfully, add to this space that can already feel really populated and really saturated, even though, when you break it down and you find your perfect fit, you’ll see that it’s not that crowded, and what you have to say is really important.

Catherine A. Wood  04:04

I know from the coaching lens that so often the opportunities that we see for others to overcome in this space are similar shifts that we’ve made along our own journey, or similar, similar work that we are up to for ourselves, such that we’re able to see and discern it in other people. So I’m curious what your journey has been like with analysis paralysis and imperfectionism and imposter syndrome.

Haley Hatcher  04:35

Yeah. I mean, I guess just taking it back, I’ve been podcasting Since 2017 but first I worked for an OBM agency. So it was me with a team of, I don’t know, 17 other women. And then overnight, my boss at that agency, she decided to shut her their doors and. So I had this decision thrown in my face where it’s like, okay, I can go and try to get your traditional nine to five job, even though I had an 18 month at home, or I could try to go out on my own. And so I feel like in that regard, I didn’t really have a lot of time to process, like, a lot of these emotions that come up for entrepreneurs who are really starting from ground zero and have time to think about their business. I was kind of thrown into it. And there are really good things about that, because it was kind of do or die, but at the same time, I just felt like I didn’t know what the heck I was doing. And so I have learned so much along the way. I have had to really break my business down and build it back up. I would say, like two times since being an entrepreneur. So in the past five years, since I’ve owned my business, and I think a lot of the things and obstacles that have come up for me are around as a heart centered entrepreneur, giving my giving myself the option to be really choosy about who I work with and like how I find that alignment. And then also an even bigger obstacle for me that I still struggle with is charging our value, and I know that’s something that you talk a lot about on the podcast, but I think that this is the first year where I have really raised my prices to be in step with other agencies or other freelancers in this niche, and it’s it’s been hard, and I don’t, I can go through all the reasons why it has been hard and all the mindset work around it, but I feel like, if you’re listening to this podcast, you know why it’s hard to charge your worth, because you want to impact so many people, and you want to make it easy for them, and you feel bad taking their money. And so I just had to do a lot of work around that. So I don’t know where you want to start. Want to start.

Catherine A. Wood  07:04

I mean, I love all of it. I think the the little tidbit I that I latched on to was when you shared how, like, overnight you kind of had to make it or die, right? Like, and you had an 18 month year old at home? Yeah, and I joke about this a lot with my clients, but I I often say that there’s two ways to approach change. You can either be a bridge burner or a bridge builder. Mm, hmm, and so, so say, like you see something you want for yourself on the other side of the bridge, whether it’s to become your own boss, to become a business owner, to whatever, travel the world, right? And then there’s typically two approaches to get there. You might be a bridge burner who, like, sees what they want, leaps over the bridge and burns it up after them. So like, you have to make it happen, or you could be a bridge builder. I’m very much a bridge builder. I like I know what I want. I see it so clearly, and then I safely and smoothly lay planks so that I can walk much more comfortably to the other side of the bridge. Now, there are pluses and minuses of both. But being a bridge builder, your journey is often a lot slower. And I often joke that in my own path to entrepreneurship, like if I had gotten fired from the government, I would have found my strides. I would have learned how to charge comfortably much sooner, when, like, I had that much skin in the teeth, you know, versus having this pension, providing job that was, like, really cushy and comfortable and added lots of flexibility to build my business on the side. Yeah,

Haley Hatcher  08:53

exactly, and yeah. So I guess I was a bridge burner, but not by choice, but now I think back on it, and I’m like, if, if I wasn’t forced into it, I probably would have never done it, because it’s a lot safer, at least in my point of view, it feels a lot safer and nicer to my nervous system, like working for someone else and having that little bit of security. And I, like, love what I do, right? Like, I love podcasting, and so I am very much a part of the deliverables still for all of my clients across the board. And so when you’re a business owner, though, you kind of have to take a step back and delegate where you can and spend like half of your time, if not more, working on your business in the CEO role instead of working in your business. And that’s something that I didn’t get to think about either as I started my own business, was the fact that, okay, I love the work that I do. But like, I have to take a step back if I want to scale, if I want to grow, and so I think a part of that too has been challenging as well, but all to say that, like you said, there are pros and cons to both. And I don’t think one way is the right way or the wrong way, but I think who I am, I would have rather been the bridge builder. And every iteration that I’ve had in my business since the beginning has definitely been more of the bridge building scenario.

Catherine A. Wood  10:32

Yeah. I mean, I can appreciate, I can completely appreciate that, um, looking back on my own journey like I’m grateful that I got to follow a bridge building route because I partnered with a lot of bridge burners over the years, and I saw how much they struggled, no and I didn’t have such an empowered relationship to fear. Then, you know, like we say that you have to feel the fear and do it anyway, and like when I was first starting out, like that, fear made me want to vomit. It didn’t necessarily inspire me or motivate me, but now being a mom, it feels like that provides like a whole another level of inspiration, because now you’re you have more skin in the game. Like to model for your children and and there feels like there’s something so much more at stake. And so I guess I’m curious how becoming a mom influences how you show up in your business, how you CEO, how you scale? Yeah,

Haley Hatcher  11:45

um, so I think I have two girls. I have a six year old and a two year old. And so with my six year old, she was born when I first started remote work, and so I didn’t really even understand what I was getting myself into at the time. I just thought it was like, this great, which it was, it was a great opportunity that was, like, thrown in my lap, that I was able to work from home and be with her. And throughout that time, that’s when I started my own business and started to scale. But then when I got pregnant with my second baby, I would have been about three years into owning my own business, and it was very both of my pregnancies have been really hard in the fact that, like, I’ve been very sick both times. Um, so just like, very low energy, didn’t want to do anything, had no motivation whatsoever. And so in preparation for my second kid, I was like, okay, something has to change in my business, because I was working, it felt like endless hours, and I just like, was not even the mom I wanted to be to my three year old at the time, I felt like she was coming second after my work. And so it kind of felt like, you know, like, what was the point? And I knew with my second child, I didn’t want to do that. And so again, this was, like, not a decision that was very well thought out, but I had hit a breaking point, and I decided, okay, I’m only going to offer podcast launch services instead of podcast launch and podcast management services. And so pretty much overnight, I got rid of a lot, I would say, 90% of my management clients. I kept a few on to have that cushion of income while I thought I would look for launch clients, but I got rid of most of my income. And at that time, it felt like that was my only decision. It was like, do or die. I was sick. I didn’t want to do this. Either I did this or I was like, getting rid of my business as a whole. And so I did that, and then I had my baby, I was able to take a maternity leave, and coming back from that, I was like, Okay, well, kind of like I had this oh shit moment where it was like, okay, my income is super low. I’m feeling better. I’m at capacity again. So now I need to start my business over, and this time I can do it right. And so I put in a lot more boundaries with the clients that I would bring on. I put in a lot more boundaries with the hours that I’m working. I put that like the hours that I’m working and when I’m available. I put in my contract with my clients, and my goal, essentially is a four day work week. I only work when my oldest is at school, and I give myself really slow mornings so that I can have one on one time with my youngest daughter before she goes to school next year already, which is crazy, so I guess I was like kind of a roundabout way of answering your question. But. And I know it’s so cliche, but boundaries have really saved me, and hiring a team that I trust, that I can delegate to has also saved me too. And then I will say to 99.9% of my clients are women and mothers too. So if I say, Hey, I can’t get to this today because my daughter’s sick, or thank you for bringing this to my attention. I will get to this tomorrow, because I’m on my way to pick up my daughter from school, and I’m done with work for the day, things like that. And knowing that they don’t care, knowing that they understand, has helped my nervous system a lot, because I’m a recovering people pleaser, like most of us are.

Catherine A. Wood  15:40

Mm, hmm, you know, I joke with my clients and colleagues how much you can tell about someone’s boundaries that it is a complete reflection of the work that they’ve done on themselves, right? Like because it is truly those of us who’ve done our own personal work that have boundaries, feel like a fresh of air. And you know, I was one of those clients who you, you tried to fire me just as we were getting started, because you were switching over to just launch clients. And then I remember, after your maternity leave, you emailed me, and you were like, actually, I’m reconsidering. I wanted to know if you wanted to revisit this, and I was like, Oh, I had a whole nervous system like release moment, because I found your boundaries so incredibly refreshing, because I only partner with people whose boundaries are transparent, because I know that we’re both committed to doing our own work. And you know, for those of our listeners who are listening curious like what those boundaries are, just to like, tease Haley for a moment, like, I have already received an email two weeks ago about Haley’s holiday schedule and by when she needs to receive the raw audio for the episodes for this week, this week and this week so that she can have her team produce them by the time holidays arrive at the end of December. And it is, like, lovely and refreshing, and it helps me manage time and and batch recording. And I’m like, Oh, this is delightful.

Haley Hatcher  17:18

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have to because, like, that time off is so important to me. And I think, like a byproduct of holding those boundaries too, is like, my team gets rewarded as well, and my clients get rewarded too, because, you know, during this time off in December and January, they don’t have to worry about the podcast, and my team can take the time off too, because we’ve already bashed everything. And so I think when you hold those boundaries, you’re not only like making or keeping the promise to yourself, but you are rewarding everyone else in the process, and you really get to show them what’s possible. Yeah, totally,

Catherine A. Wood  17:53

totally, totally, totally, I don’t know. I don’t know if I’ve acknowledged you sufficiently how much I appreciate your boundaries. Just feels

Haley Hatcher  18:01

like it feels like routine at this point, because we’ve been working together for years and years.

Catherine A. Wood  18:06

Yeah? Fair, fair, good point. Yeah. Um, well, let’s, let’s shift gears, because I really want to get to kind of the meat of our episode, because, you know, I talk with lots of entrepreneurs for whom launching a podcast is a dream or and not even just a podcast, like taking up more space online, I like I can just I’ve just had so many conversations with clients over the years and Colleagues for whom it’s so uncomfortable to take up space online and to be authentic, to be vulnerable, and I’m curious. Well, I can imagine it’s frustrating for you when you get new clients and then they delay and delay and delay because they’re scared or they don’t know what to say, or, you know, these, these mindset blocks that you’ve already mentioned, get caught up in launch time frames. And so I’m wondering, like, what is your How do you support clients from your vantage point as a Podcast Producer, in overcoming some, I mean, lifelong mindset blocks for probably most of our listeners, yeah,

Haley Hatcher  19:30

um, well, first thing I like to tell my clients when they start with me is like, Hey, this is the day that we said. Said that your podcast is going to launch. But I want you to know that I’m flexible because I want their decision making to feel good. I want it to come from like a place of confidence and feeling grounded and so me rushing them, it doesn’t really help. So just like building in that flex. Ability, and then really fleshing out with them, like, Why do they want to launch this podcast? And again, I know this is another cliche thing, but getting back to the why really helps to solve a lot of those blocks, because you realize, okay, what I have to say is unique, what I have to say is important. And a lot of these clients that I worked with, they’ve had their own clients telling them for years, like, hey, you need to launch a podcast or their own community, saying, I love what you’re saying in this post here. Like, where can I learn more about it? And so a podcast feels like that natural next step. But again, it’s just holding the space for them to get in touch with why they want to do this, and then helping them bring that to life step by step, so that it starts to feel like something doable, so it starts to feel like something that can be real, and just being honest with them about, yes, there’s like that, you know, figurative why, of why you want to launch your podcast about, you know, what your message is, and XYZ, but also the why, like, how is this Podcast going to support your business and showing them different ways that my clients podcasts have already supported their business, so giving them that little bit of motivation there, whether it’s through crafting new relationships, whether it’s through helping them build up their income, whether it’s just adding people to their audience, and once you’re in touch with that tangible piece of how this podcast will help my business and the figurative piece of this is the unique thing that I have to add to this space, and it is needed. Once those pieces really click into place, it becomes a lot easier to take action, and I’m just here to help facilitate that, and I don’t really think that I have to do much on my end, but just like always be the gentle reminder of, hey, this is why we’re doing what we’re doing, and then making the process really easy, so that my clients don’t have to worry about the step by step. They only have to worry about getting clear on those two things and then getting in front of the mic.

Catherine A. Wood  22:26

You know, you say gentle reminder, but truly that gentle reminder in the way that you’ve done it, at least in our partnership over the past several years, has been really supportive, because it looks like consistent check ins and account. And those check ins, they their account, their accountability, right? It’s like, Hey, just wanted to check in. You said you were going to send this over by the state, and none of it feels like like I’m being shamed. You know, it’s like very, very much comes from a a partner in place. And I think that for many of us who are trying to find our voice, like having a partner who reminds us of what we wanted and and what our vision for having it was, it’s often it makes all the difference.

Haley Hatcher  23:27

Yeah, and that’s so good to hear, because I think that, like, I think any business owner has this problem where I want to make it about me, right? Like, Oh, cat didn’t get this episode because the work that we’re doing isn’t important, or she didn’t review this content because she actually just hates it and doesn’t know how to tell me. You know what? I mean, I think, like as business owners, it’s really easy to, especially at least, I mean, at least for me, it’s really easy to spiral into, like, these worst case scenarios. And so again, holding these boundaries, doing those thoughtful check ins, it has helped me to put space between me and my business. And so to hear you say, like, no, they are thoughtful. Like no, it doesn’t mean x, y, z, it’s just like you doing your job. And so that’s really good to hear.

Catherine A. Wood  24:17

I mean, I and I appreciate you naming that like that, it causes you to spiral because you know, as heart centered entrepreneurs, we’re so conscientious of how our our words and our actions are interpreted by other people, and we often jump to conclusions and make assumptions about what other people are thinking and responding by their action or inaction, and I think that that’s like such a beautiful heart of thriving as a heart centered entrepreneur, is that we’re actually willing to put that process on loudspeaker or like name? Met, and every time I think it’s named, it creates a deepened relationship or a deepened level of understanding in the partnership. I don’t know if I’m being clear or if I’m if that’s I can just think of several examples, even in our partnership, where where where there’s just been instances of like sharing or naming those feelings or fears that have resulted in deepened understanding or collaboration that feel even more supportive in overcoming that, yeah. I mean all the things, all the analysis paralysis, the perfectionism, the imposter syndrome, like all of it, yeah.

Haley Hatcher  25:51

And I think that’s a really beautiful thing about having a team who supports you in the long term. I know it’s not always possible, but if you can have a team who you employ, you know, month after month, year after year, with each week, month, whatever that passes by, you get to know each other so well. And I’m not saying it in like, in any way where like, lines or boundaries are crossed between that personal and the professional, but just in the sense that, like, Okay, I know Kat, I know 90% of the time, like, what she would want, how she would want to say this, and then if there ever is any changes to anything that I create for you, or any part of Our workflow, again, I know it’s not personal. It’s just because it’s important how you are perceived. And I think that’s like, and I know we’re getting into kind of a new topic here, but I think that’s another Mindset block of not just hiring someone to launch your podcast, but outsourcing any part of your business, because you you have to, like, let go of that control. And when you are an empath, when you are heart centered, that can be hard to do, because you’re letting go a little bit of how people could potentially perceive you. And so that’s where, again, that separation between self and business is so important?

Catherine A. Wood  27:22

Yeah, totally. And, I mean, I think, I mean, even as I just think about my mothering journey, you know, like it just, it’s such a reminder that you have to regulate your own nerve nervous system, care for yourself so that you can show up from a pristine resource place for everyone else, from your kids to your clients. And it it makes such a difference in not taking other people personally or not jumping to assumptions about what other people mean, because you’re more resourced, right? Like you can bring curiosity rather than fear, yeah,

Haley Hatcher  27:58

and that’s something that I feel like in the past two years is really when I’ve started doing any type of, like, thought work and nervous system work, and obviously a part of that is healing, like my own inner child, and looking at what I went through growing up and realizing, like, Okay, I don’t want to pass any bit of this on to my daughters and so I constantly my friends and I who have kids, when we talk, we say, Yeah, we are like re parenting ourselves as much as we are, if not more, parenting our kids because of the image that we want to create for them, like for themselves, for their life, how they respond to things, how they intake everything. And it’s really there’s motherhood, and then the work that goes with motherhood is just like another full time job.

Catherine A. Wood  28:56

What I’m curious, what lessons from entrepreneurship have supported your mothering journey? Or what lessons from your mothering journey? Have supported being a business owner? Yeah,

Haley Hatcher  29:09

I think just giving myself this space to process emotions and not become so reactionary, whether that is if I lose a client, or whether that is if my daughter wakes up one day and she is so mad and she doesn’t want to go to school and she’s fighting me at every turn of our morning routine again, just like not yelling at in that moment, because that doesn’t help make anything better, not spiraling and think I need to find Another client right away, because that doesn’t make anything better. But just like taking a pause to breathe, to remind myself that this is just like one day, this is just one season, and to remind myself that I am like divinely supported, i. And I am allowed to feel these things and then respond from a more regulated place, and at least I know like for my daughter, I just want to teach her to to do the same. I want to teach her that it’s okay to take space and not react right away. And I always tell her, you know, like you’re allowed to be mad, but you’re not allowed to be mean. And so teaching her that, and again, like when I go through these hard phases in my business, just reminding myself that, you know, it’s not about me, and I get to choose how I want to react to this.

Catherine A. Wood  30:38

I mean, I mean, I really love that. The other day, I was trying to record an intro to send you, and Micah kept waking up. Yeah, I was on mothering duty, and I was under the clock to send this to you, and he just wouldn’t play silently. And I literally needed, like, two minutes, but he wouldn’t play silently. And the intro, the copy that I was trying to talk out loud and send over to you, was all about presence and being present. And it was, I thought it was so funny, like I literally was talking about presence and present, being present, and I couldn’t be present. I couldn’t be present for the recording, and I couldn’t be present with him. And that’s all he was demanding of me, was my full presence. And I just had to laugh and like, walk away.

Haley Hatcher  31:36

That used to be so hard for me, especially with my first daughter, I would get so frustrated so quickly when she just, like, would not be quiet for me for two minutes. And I think like, overstimulation is something that I’ve struggled with when it comes to both of my kids, and that’s because it’s just so hard for me to sit down and like, focus on work, and then, like, could just code switch to being a mom, and then having to come back to work, and then back to being a mom, and it is like the constant back and forth, and that’s why, like, I only work a few hours a day, because by the end of it, if I would work longer, I would just be so exhausted and I wouldn’t be able to show up as my best self for My babies, because the day would have just drained me. Mm, hmm,

Catherine A. Wood  32:24

yeah. I mean, I hear that, and I think in my case, like it’s not necessarily that, that I get drained from work. It’s that, like I can, I can muscle through tasks to get them done, but when I muscle through tasks like I’m not bringing my full

Haley Hatcher  32:43

presence, yeah, it doesn’t feel good, and it doesn’t, it doesn’t come across

Catherine A. Wood  32:47

in the same way. So I actually, like, I loved the lesson of that moment with him, because it’s, it’s in those moments when I walk away and then I come back from an embodied, grounded place that, you know, things take me a fraction of the time, and it’s like the authentic version of who I am and what there is for me to communicate. And that’s actually the topic I would love for us to end on today is like taking up space as a heart centered entrepreneur, being authentically ourselves is a challenge for me, for you I know, for for my listeners. So how do you support your clients in giving and giving themselves that permission to take up their own authentic space?

Haley Hatcher  33:39

Yeah, I think just let I think just telling them to let go of the expectations of what they think needs to happen, what they think podcasting success looks like, and just to focus on the next step of what they can do, and that with that done is better than perfect. There’s no such thing as a perfect podcast episode, and as long as they are getting their story and their message out there, bit by bit, they are, episodes have this ripple effect that they will never be able to measure, and so I think just reminding them of those little things has helped majority of my clients show up week after week after week and get more confident week after Week after week because they see, like these little changes that are happening, not only like for themselves, but for their business too.

Catherine A. Wood  34:50

I remember when you told me that, like, it’s totally okay if I talk slower or if I just stop and start, because that’s what editing is. Four, and I was like, yeah, oh my gosh. I don’t have to get it all perfect when I hit record,

Haley Hatcher  35:05

yeah, yeah. And it’s so crazy, because if, like, I look at clients who I’ve started with them from the beginning, and like, you know, their first couple episodes, the list of edits is, like, so long. And then with each episode, it gets a bit shorter, a bit shorter, a bit shorter. So like, it get, it gets to the point where, like, hey, we just need to do the audio mastering and add the add the assets. That’s it. And I think that is like such a beautiful process and progression, because it’s very tangible and it’s just like something that I can see and that my clients can feel.

Catherine A. Wood  35:39

I mean, separate from the separate from the like, the habit of of really learning how to take up more space. I’m curious from your vantage point, like, what you most enjoy about seeing your clients after they take up more space? Like, what do you love most about that transformational process,

Haley Hatcher  36:03

that’s a good question. And I think it’s really just a lot of them just feel proud of themselves and like the pride. And I think pride has, like, a really nasty connotation, because you can often have too much of it, but heart centered entrepreneurs often don’t have enough of it. And so I think seeing that grow that is like the best part. Oh,

Catherine A. Wood  36:27

I love that answer. That’s so true. Haley, I couldn’t agree more, yeah. Well, as we wrap today, I’m curious, and I don’t know if I shared this with you, but I’m shifting my closing question.

36:42

That’s fine,

Catherine A. Wood  36:45

Psych, I’m curious like, what the mindset hack is that’s most supported you in your journey. It’s not about me,

Haley Hatcher  36:57

and I don’t take that lightly, because I really do feel like the work that I do is impactful, even if it doesn’t directly impact me, it’s directly impacting those that listen to my clients podcasts, and so, yeah, when I can separate my worth and my value from how many clients I have on my roster, or how many 10k months I have in a year, whatever that is, whatever vanity metric you’re attached to, when you can separate yourself from that, the work that you do becomes so much more meaningful. Because whether I’m producing weekly for three clients or, you know, I think at my most busy time was 21 clients. The work still has equal importance for me, if that makes sense,

Catherine A. Wood  37:52

dang girl, 21 clients, that’s crazy. Yeah, it was not a fun time. Wow. Haley, this has been delightful, and I also love that this is the first episode that will air post the rebrand and getting to talk about the incorporation of parenting with you, of all people, for someone who I’ve really kind of gotten to work with intimately in those roles of being and seeing you as a mompreneur and heart centered at that like it’s just been really lovely on multiple levels. So thanks for joining me, and thank you for your partnership.

Haley Hatcher  38:31

Thank you. I’m honored to be here, and I had so much fun today. You.